annotate etc/MAILINGLISTS @ 63767:60a9b2133cf1

(call_debugger): Take full care of extending stack limits to make space for the debugger, and restore the change afterward. Bind debug-on-error to nil. (restore_stack_limits): New subroutine. (Fsignal): Extend specpdl bound along with eval depth bound, for calling edebug. Don't do either one, for calling debugger. (find_handler_clause): Don't bind debug-on-error here. Don't unbind anything either. Temporarily advance max_specpdl_size for calling internal_with_output_to_temp_buffer. (grow_specpdl): Don't alter max_specpdl_size before signaling an error. (syms_of_eval) <max-specpdl-size>: Doc fix.

      GNU Project Electronic Mailing Lists and gnUSENET Newsgroups
			Last Updated 2004-10-19

	   Please report improvements to: [e-mail]

* Mailing list archives

The GNU mailing lists are archived at http://lists.gnu.org.

* Some GNU mailing lists are also distributed as USENET news groups

Certain GNU mailing lists are gated both ways with the gnu.all
newsgroups at uunet.  You can tell which they are, because the names
correspond.  For instance, bug-gnu-emacs corresponds to gnu.emacs.bug;
info-gnu-emacs, to gnu.emacs.announce; help-gnu-emacs, to
gnu.emacs.help; gnu-emacs-sources, to gnu.emacs.sources.  Replacing
`emacs' with some other program in those four examples shows you
the whole pattern.

If you don't know if your site is on USENET, ask your system
administrator.  If you are a USENET site and don't get the gnu.all
newsgroups, please ask your USENET administrator to get them.  If he has
your feeds ask their feeds, you should win.  And everyone else wins:
newsgroups make better use of the limited bandwidth of the computer
networks and your home machine than mailing list traffic; and staying
off the mailing lists make better use of the people who maintain the
lists and the machines that the GNU people working with rms use (i.e. we
have more time to produce code!!).  Thanx.

* Getting the mailing lists directly

If several users at your site or local network want to read a list and
you aren't a USENET site, Project GNU would prefer that you would set up
one address that redistributes locally.  This reduces overhead on our
people and machines, your gateway machine, and the network(s) used to
transport the mail from us to you.

* How to subscribe to and report bugs in mailing lists

Send requests to be added or removed, to help-gnu-emacs-request (or
info-gnu-request, bug-gdb-request, etc.), NOT to info-gnu-emacs (or
info-gnu, etc.).  Most <LIST_NAME>-request addresses are now handled
automagically by GNU Mailman.

If you need to report problems to a human, send mail to [e-mail]
explaining the problem.

Many of the GNU mailing lists are very large and are received by many
people.  Most are unmoderated, so please don't send them anything that
is not seriously important to all their readers.

If a message you mail to a list is returned from a MAILER-DAEMON (often
with the line:
      ----- Transcript of session follows -----
 don't resend the message to the list.  All this return means is that
your original message failed to reach a few addresses on the list.  Such
messages are NEVER a reason to resend a piece of mail a 2nd time.  This
just bothers all (less the few delivery failures (which will probably
just fail again!)) of the readers of the list with a message they have
already seen.  It also wastes computer and network resources.

It is appropriate to send these to the -request address for a list, and
ask them to check the problem out.

* Send Specific Requests for Information to: [e-mail]

Specific requests for information about obtaining GNU software, or GNU
activities in Cambridge and elsewhere can be directed to:
	[e-mail]

* General Information about all lists

Please keep each message under 25,000 characters.  Some mailers bounce
messages that are longer than this.  If your message is long, it is
generally better to send a message offering to make the large file
available to only those people who want it (e.g. mailing it to people
who ask, or putting it up for FTP).  In the case of gnu.emacs.sources,
somewhat larger postings (up to 10 parts of no more than 25,000
characters each) are acceptable (assuming they are likely to be of
interest to a reasonable number of people); if it is larger than that,
put it in a web page and announce its URL.  Good bug reports are short.
See section '* General Information about bug-* lists and ...'  for
further details.

Most of the time, when you reply to a message sent to a list, the reply
should not go to the list.  But most mail reading programs supply, by
default, all the recipients of the original as recipients of the reply.
Make a point of deleting the list address from the header when it does
not belong.  This prevents bothering all readers of a list, and reduces
network congestion.

The GNU mailing lists and newsgroups, like the GNU project itself, exist
to promote the freedom to share software.  So don't use these lists to
promote or recommend non-free software or documentation, like
proprietary books on GNU software.  (Using them to post ordering
information is the ultimate faux pas.)  If there is no free program to
do a certain task, then somebody should write one!  Similarly, free
documentation that is inadequate should be improved--a way in which
non-programmers can make a valuable contribution.  See also the article
at <URL:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-doc.html>.

* General Information about info-* lists

These lists and their newsgroups are meant for important announcements.
Since the GNU project uses software development as a means for social
change, the announcements may be technical or political.

Most GNU projects info-* lists (and their corresponding gnu.*.announce
newsgroups) are moderated to keep their content significant and
relevant.  If you have a bug to report, send it to the bug-* list.  If
you need help on something else and the help-* list exists, ask it.

See section '* General Information about all lists'.

* General Information about help-* lists

These lists (and their newsgroups) exist for anyone to ask questions
about the GNU software that the list deals with.  The lists are read by
people who are willing to take the time to help other users.

When you answer the questions that people ask on the help-* lists, keep
in mind that you shouldn't answer by promoting a proprietary program as
a solution.  The only real solutions are the ones all the readers can
share.

If a program crashes, or if you build it following the standard
procedure on a system on which it is supposed to work and it does not
work at all, or if an command does not behave as it is documented to
behave, this is a bug.  Don't send bug reports to a help-* list; mail
them to the bug-* list instead.

See section '* General Information about all lists'.

* General Information about bug-* lists and reporting program bugs

If you think something is a bug in a program, it might be one; or, it
might be a misunderstanding or even a feature.  Before beginning to
report bugs, please read the section ``Reporting Emacs Bugs'' toward the
end of the GNU Emacs reference manual (or node Emacs/Bugs in Emacs's
built-in Info system) for a discussion of how and when to send in bug
reports.  For GNU programs other than GNU Emacs, also consult their
documentation for their bug reporting procedures.  Always include the
version number of the GNU program, as well as the operating system and
machine the program was ran on (if the program doesn't have a version
number, send the date of the latest entry in the file ChangeLog).  For
GNU Emacs bugs, type "M-x emacs-version".  A debugger backtrace of any
core dump can also be useful.  Be careful to separate out hypothesis
from fact!  For bugs in GNU Emacs lisp, set variable debug-on-error to
t, and re-enter the command(s) that cause the error message; Emacs will
pop up a debug buffer if something is wrong; please include a copy of
the buffer in your bug report.  Please also try to make your bug report
as short as possible; distill the problem to as few lines of code and/or
input as possible.  GNU maintainers give priority to the shortest, high
quality bug reports.

Please don't send in a patch without a test case to illustrate the
problem the patch is supposed to fix.  Sometimes the patches aren't
correct or aren't the best way to do the job, and without a test case
there is no way to debug an alternate fix.

The purpose of reporting a bug is to enable the bug to be fixed for the
sake of the whole community of users.  You may or may not receive a
response; the maintainers will send one if that helps them find or
verify a fix.  Most GNU maintainers are volunteers and all are
overworked; they don't have time to help individuals and still fix the
bugs and make the improvements that everyone wants.  If you want help
for yourself in particular, you may have to hire someone.  The GNU
project maintains a list of people providing such services.  It is
found in <URL:http://www.gnu.org/prep/SERVICE>.

Anything addressed to the implementors and maintainers of a GNU program
via a bug-* list, should NOT be sent to the corresponding info-* or
help-* list.

Please DON'T post your bug reports on the gnu.*.bug newsgroups!  Mail
them to bug-*@gnu.org instead!  At first sight, it seems to make no
difference: anything sent to one will be propagated to the other; but:
	- if you post on the newsgroup, the information about how to
reach you is lost in the message that goes on the mailing list.  It
can be very important to know how to reach you, if there is anything
in the bug report that we don't understand;
	- bug reports reach the GNU maintainers quickest when they are
sent to the bug-* mailing list submittal address;
	- mail is much more reliable then netnews; and
	- if the internet mailers can't get your bug report delivered,
they almost always send you an error message, so you can find another
way to get the bug report in.  When netnews fails to get your message
delivered to the maintainers, you'll never know about it and the
maintainers will never see the bug report.

And please DON'T post your GNU bug reports to comp.* or other gnu.*
newsgroups, they never make it to the GNU maintainers at all.  Please
mail them to bug-*@gnu.org instead!

* Some special lists that don't fit the usual patterns of help-, bug- and info-

** [e-mail] to subscribe to info-gnu

gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.announce
Send announcements to: [e-mail]

This list distributes progress reports on the GNU Project.  It is also
used by the GNU Project to ask people for various kinds of help.  It is
moderated and NOT for general discussion.

** [e-mail] to subscribe to gnu-misc-discuss

gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.misc.discuss
Send contributions to: [e-mail]

This list is for serious discussion of free software, the GNU Project,
the GNU Manifesto, and their implications.  It's THE place for
discussion that is not appropriate in the other GNU mailing lists and
gnUSENET newsgroups.

Flaming is out of place.  Tit-for-tat is not welcome.  Repetition
should not occur.

Good READING and writing are expected.  Before posting, wait a while,
cool off, and think.

Don't use this group for complaints and bug reports about GNU software!
The maintainers of the package you are using probably don't read this
group; they won't see your complaint.  Use the appropriate bug-reporting
mailing list instead, so that people who can do something about the
problem will see it.  Likewise, use the help- list for technical
questions.

Don't trust pronouncements made on gnu-misc-discuss about what GNU is,
what FSF position is, what the GNU General Public License is, etc.,
unless they are made by someone you know is well connected with GNU and
are sure the message is not forged.

USENET and gnUSENET readers are expected to have read ALL the articles
in news.announce.newusers before posting.  If news.announce.newusers is
empty at your site, wait (the articles are posted monthly), your posting
isn't that urgent!  Readers on the Internet can anonymous FTP these
articles from host ftp.uu.net under directory ??

Remember, "GNUs Not Unix" and "gnUSENET is Not USENET".  We have
higher standards!

** [e-mail] to subscribe to guile-sources

gnUSENET newsgroup: NONE PLANNED
Guile source code to: [e-mail]

This list will be for the posting, by their authors, of GUILE, Scheme,
and C sources and patches that improve Guile.  Its contents will be
reviewed by the FSF for inclusion in future releases of GUILE.

Please do NOT discuss or request source code here.  Use bug-guile for
those purposes.  This allows the automatic archiving of sources posted
to this list.

Please do NOT post such sources to any other GNU mailing list (e.g
bug-guile) or gnUSENET newsgroups.  It's up to each poster to decide
whether to cross-post to any non-gnUSENET newsgroup.

Please do NOT announce that you have posted source code to guile.sources
to any other GNU mailing list (e.g. bug-guile) or gnUSENET newsgroups.
People who want to keep up with sources will read this list.  It's up to
each poster to decide whether to announce a guile.sources article in any
non-gnUSENET newsgroup (e.g. comp.emacs or comp.sources.d).

If source or patches that were previously posted or a simple fix is
requested in bug-guile, please mail it to the requester.  Do NOT
repost it.  If you also want something that is requested, send mail to
the requester asking him to forward it to you.  This kind of traffic is
best handled by e-mail, not by a broadcast medium that reaches millions
of sites.

If the requested source is very long (>10k bytes) send mail offering to
send it.  This prevents the requester from getting many redundant copies
and saves network bandwidth.

** [e-mail] to subscribe to gnu-emacs-sources

gnUSENET newsgroup: gnu.emacs.sources
GNU Emacs source code to: [e-mail]

This list/newsgroup will be for the posting, by their authors, of Emacs
Lisp and C sources and patches that improve GNU Emacs.  Its contents
will be reviewed by the FSF for inclusion in future releases of GNU
Emacs.

Please do NOT discuss or request source code here.  Use
help-gnu-emacs/gnu.emacs.help for those purposes.  This allows the
automatic archiving of sources posted to this list/newsgroup.

Please do NOT post such sources to any other GNU mailing list (e.g
help-gnu-emacs) or gnUSENET newsgroups (e.g. gnu.emacs.help).  It's up
to each poster to decide whether to cross-post to any non-gnUSENET
newsgroup (e.g. comp.emacs or vmsnet.sources).

Please do NOT announce that you have posted source code to
gnu.emacs.sources to any other GNU mailing list (e.g. help-gnu-emacs) or
gnUSENET newsgroups (e.g. gnu.emacs.help).  People who want to keep up
with sources will read this list/newsgroup.  It's up to each poster to
decide whether to announce a gnu.emacs.sources article in any
non-gnUSENET newsgroup (e.g. comp.emacs or comp.sources.d).

If source or patches that were previously posted or a simple fix is
requested in help-gnu-emacs, please mail it to the requester.  Do NOT
repost it.  If you also want something that is requested, send mail to
the requester asking him to forward it to you.  This kind of traffic is
best handled by e-mail, not by a broadcast medium that reaches millions
of sites.

If the requested source is very long (>10k bytes) send mail offering to
send it.  This prevents the requester from getting many redundant copies
and saves network bandwidth.

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